LE DIABLE : XV = V + ^ + V

-Here we arrived at the last bridge of the whole sequence and of the last row also.
So if we really passed by the prior row we can enter finally at the next final row that promise the real Soul prize of all : XXI
* But as usual is not easy and if the prior row ( XI to XIIII ) was very hard,this has the truest problem...
As it is a bridge (XV) so not the prior of this next row.

LE DIABLE:

1-A thing very too much intriguing is as LE MAT / LA MORT and LE DIABLE face and legs are the only skin coloured.
I think skin colour as to be "here".
Or best the parts of the bodies of the figures that are here physically understand,on a real sense as you or I.
* For example the three mentioned has face and legs coloured.
But all have theirs hands uncoloured ( See I not said white,because this colour does not exists in TdM pattern)
2-We of course have the examples of the body Cupid and legs of the middle boy at VI and the left face figure at X,and the breasts of VIII and so on...
But here we have I think a "common" interlinked.
-A card named but unnumbered (LE MAT),a card numbered but unnamed ( after Noblet deck) (if the expert Yves Les Marseilles correct me if I am wrong here ),and a card named and numbered : LE DIABLE
3-Ours dear diable has face,arms and legs skin coloured.
His little devils tied to him has barely all the half of theirs bodies skin coloured except theirs chest,ears,arms and theirs hoof.
a-It seems as the left is a male and the right a female at a first glance.
I can see the female breasts and the end of the tail of the one of the right.
So contrary to the one of the left whose tail ends as the one of a lion for example.
-The male left little devil has his right half side body skin coloured and the female the left half side.
Both have red right arm coloured and both green theirs left.
But in the case of the right figure the red colour of the right arm continue on the throat,the creative opposite pole of ours genitals.
With ours throat we can express ourselves and be creative on a different level.
The female has this quality over the male because till now the male priority is the continuity of the human race on a physically point of view of course...
*But keep in mind that both figures are an allegory of ours innermost natures.
We have all have both natures.The difference is which one express this time in a body (male or female) and also and in ours innermost nature.(May be not opposite as we see around).
b-So both half skin coloured sides are complementary to sum ONE body,the human race.
The pale blue part of theirs bodies is a depiction of theirs celestial origin.They pay attention to theirs celestial origin with theirs ears.
-But see also that the female devil has also pale blue on the right side of her torso,because she came here to express her left carnal side.
4-The ground begin in green and ends in black.
But see the side of the male figure of the left...
Between his legs one can see how much is he tied to the deepest (black) of the earth that is not the case of the women.
5-But where are they tied ?
* They are tied to the earth through the devil throne.
They are tied to the Matter.
a-It s supposed that also theirs hands are tied at theirs back,otherwise they can untied by themselves...
But I must say that I can t "see" the rope as on theirs necks so I can also suppose that they are untied.
Could be a depiction of simple submission and conscious acceptance and resignation as a result of it ?
b-A yellow rope tied theirs necks to the devil throne which is placed on the earth.
Yellow is the tails of the figures ( An animal remember of ours physical nature),theirs both "helmets".
With regard to the devil yellow are both feet showing his is "here" placed,his belly (ours most powerful place of ours instincts so where you begin to "feel" very hard emotions ? ),the below border of his helmet,and the external border of his wings.
c-So as a result,if one link the depiction of the belly of the devil with his feets and the rope tied to the necks of both figures,I think Tarot itself bring us the depiction of the card as I see ...
-So where are both figures tied ? -For me they are tied to the earth,to the Matter to physical condition.
And because they are tied these card show to us a "jail" condition by itself.
I mean that these situation is far more above of ours liberty.
We will never reach this card if we don t understand the lesson of it.
Remember I called it a "Bridge" as the cards V - X and XX.
So all bridge are as they are : "BRIDGES"
-If the bridge has below on the waters thousands of snakes you will understand me baby...
6-This is for me the best wonderful example of all the sequence about the colour topic.
(Surely a truest qualified expert on Tarot de Marseille as Yves Les Marseilles,one for me of the best at web world BTW...,would be agree here I expect )

-It s seems as if felt on a contradiction here and at the prior 14 threads...
a- I always strongly remarked that for me the skin colour is a depiction of ours body physically understand.
That is related to ours real ordinary day by day world.
Is ours instrument to "download" ours mind creations as here for example,and also to love,work and simply try "to go ahead aside external problems that they seems bigger when is a hard sum of countless little problems than where are few bigger...
-So life goes on my dear friend each day !
b-I learned all I know following the Tchalai Unger method.Even if I am not agree with her conclusions.But her method is for me till now the best of all by far...
-Here for example: If I see a contradiction because I said that for me the pale brown colour as it s shown on some cards of the sequence is a depiction of skin so related to ours bodies,how can I then "tie" this with my depiction of this card the more skin-earth tied of all ?
-To be clearest ; Why as result the rope that tied theirs necks isn t pale brown ? / I f they are tied to the Matter ?
* I want to be now and ahead for ever raw and sincere even if a make a mistake...
So please don t have any contemplation with me,because I m here to learn more.I m not an "Ascended Master" of Tarot please... *

c-Well for me the answer is given if one see carefully where on the whole 22 cards sequence the yellow colour is present.
The best and fast answer is given by LE SOLEIL ...
* Is the Sun here at his card BROWN ? / No, is clearly YELLOW my friend.
-So here I conclude that the yellow rope that tied both figures is a God condition to perpetuate his creation.
We " read" and without no doubt "feel" it as jail sometimes,but this is temporal.
Remember this card is a bridge...
d-So what as a result we must understand here ???
* - That we all have two missions here:
First to perpetuate as a human race we are ( aside personal situations) to provide new bodies for the next to come.(As we need before )
Second work to help LE PENDV hardest work that is return with the others LE PENDV of the world,the whole creation to his Craetor so God so LE MAT. (That is why LE MAT has no number ,because he has no place,he is anywhere.)
-So the yellow colour is not an earth tied condition,contrary is a God condition at this stage (this card).
7-Returning to ours dear devil he has on his left hand a red staff (Yves could correct me if I saw at least one deck as Chosson where this staff looks as a torch...)
a-He is downloading celestial energies to become "Material" "Carnal" "Skin" et cetera...
-This is the first step of God creation.To be material,physical so here on ours feet as the devil.
The devils is the matter.
Matter by itself is not good or bad.It is only MATTER.
b-His right hand is pointing to the sky so to God,so he is uploading to God energies that he did transmute as a result of the work of the both figures (the human race / So we all ).
That work began when download God energies through his red torch or staff if you want to the earth so "HERE".
8-One outstanding detail is that both figures aside each genital (male/female nature ) condition have a vulva of a vagina...
And the devil has a penis...
-The red end of this penis is the same as the one of LE MAT (God)
This red colour remember is present on the throat creative placement female figure.
The rest of this penis and the balls are pale blue as the one side of the figures (little devils)
* So that "marry" with my thesis that be we all have a link with God here and there or best above. (Pale brown colour and pale blue one )
* So the devil is not bad at all he is only and not less of course the measure of the "weight" of ours that tied ours Soul to Earth,so to here day by day ...
-He is as submissive to God as we are wrongly to him at this card as shown ...
BTW,more later comes for me the worst,baddest card of all : XVIII
(One must I think don t confuse the devil with Lucifer the fallen angel,because Lucifer is a depiction of the Soul -The Great Soul - XXI card,which compound the sum of all of us Souls that felt in Matter,and this is the whole story of this card my baby ! )

-Well returning to the prior mentioned,the devil with his penis copulate with the human race to ensure the MATTER continuity (Skin half side) and also ensure a way to return to God with his right hand pointing to the sky.
(I expect seriously don t harm any person here please my friends with this things said )
LE DIABLE is only a God agent.He only is helpful for this card stage or Universe stage best said.
-So before blame to him,please think how much "weight" your Soul has to support each day here my friend as I do...
That is the weight that tied us to the Matter.
*As the the both figures we saw here.

-I want to dedicate this new thread to a person that for me is one of the fewest truest qualified expert of Tarot de Marseille on the whole web world,from whom I learned and will of course ahead....
*I am too happy and proud to announce that Yves Les Marseilles is logged in here !

-Yves here you have your place to tell to us your awesome knowledge ...

My best as ever

eugim

-The measure of ours matter weight which tied us to the earth,is the time which ours Souls must be tied here in terms of times of course for ours understand,so not for her...

* That is the lesson of LE DIABLE card or me.

Then if we understand it at all the fire coming from ours most below and deepest will fire and burn all the "unnecessary" "situations" we were carried on with very hard work my friend.

-Times comes when LE SOLEIL it s see but not already now...
May be takes many time weeks or years...
-But why you "SAW" it first ?

* Because you did your work faster as your Soul thought for this "time"
She expected a map with time and place and an easy trip...
And then you became and simply pushed the "life-clock"

*You gained the XV bridge baby !

Hello all, and Eugim :>:

First of all I am happy to have been informed by Miguel about this Forum: Now I have about 5 Forums to checks and visit every day: Ouch !!

As many of you I suppose I will not post on each item but if I can help about Historical Decks (Tarot de Marseille pattern is my target let's say) it will be with pleasure.

Eugim is too expansive about his friendly attitude by naming me two times on one thread (As I have four planets in Leo it is impossible to me to resist hu hu !!).

Anyway I am conscient of this and so it is not a real problem.

Back to Le Diable, what could I say more ?

My personal feeling is that this archetypal figure is not directly connected to Christian Religion but to our long long World History and I bear in mind that Christianism "used" ancient myths and Gods representations (as Churchs were build up on ancient Paganist Temples/places) to implement his Codes and laws/rituals.

My impression is that wings and his "throne" are more important signs of this card.
Wings means Gods, Space, Mental, elevation.
Throne means base, melting pot (on an alchemical point of view, if we consider that it is not only a throne...), superiority, higher conscience.

At this stage of my "quest" about tarot, I am more dedicated to researchs about Iconography of Historical decks (I gathered already 60 old decks) and Card makers history and life.

Later I will concentrate on cards signification as you all do and I will more participate to this specific angle.

Hello from Marseille City

Yves Le Marseillais

-Hello Yves...
It is really an honour to have you here.

1-I m agree with your approach about this card..
And must be said that TdM as you enough know born after the French soldiers brought the italian deck from theirs campaign of conquest of Italy in the 15 century.
Then at France the iconography was entirely reworked and was given names and number to the cards.
French artists "filled" the cards with ancient local beliefs of course encoded.
2-Here I want to face a delicate topic that raise a lot of discussion at the historical Tarot sites,as is the tarot origin.
a-Is a fact that it came from Italy,and also the arab origin of the pips.
The iconography of the 22 cards has an italian depiction of theirs beliefs.
It is a mix of Christianity at the front and Greek philosophy as a support.
b-Once the tarot arrived to France the iconography changed absolutely ...
If not tell me why are we not still using the Visconti Sforza deck for example ???
The most obvious example of this could be the angel of TEMPERANCE card.
Just compares with the Visconti card.
Or why that sort of donkey at the X card has its ears tied ?
And so on...
-So Tarot de Marseille its own iconography supported or sustained by itself.
French artists used the italian decks as a start point and then reworked the cards at all.
Was a start point not a point of arrive.
-Then frenchmen gave names and numbers to the cards.
I never forget that and its origin till now was first a card game.
But why LE MAT is unnumbered and XIII unnamed ? (except Noblet deck if Yves want to correct me)
-Why the XVI card is named LA MAISON DIEV ? / Or why XXI is named LE MONDE ? / And so on...

* Tarot de Marseille is an art work with its own iconography and historical background,which has no link with the italians decks.
French artists did with a mastery of the highest a balance between the card game purpose and the encoded message of the images.

-See the VIIII card for example.
On the italians decks is clearly a depiction of the Time.Here on TdM L HERMIT we see he hold a lantern not a clock.
He has it closer to his face.It seems as if he want that someone on the road watch him.

-Is not LA ROVE DE LA FORTVNE is the ROVE DE FORTVNE.
Names of the cards have a purpose so one must respect them.Is not the wheel it s as is named in french.
If not one can now understand why people as Waite or Papus redrawn the cards instead of try to decode the original iconography.
I can t deny the right to understand the cards as you want,but do a new deck create a new one,don t "touch" the TdM iconography please...


-And finally as Tchalai Unger said "TAROT IS IN THE TAROT" (Not outside)

Hello Eugim Aquarius man (see my last mail)

Well, my friend,

My comments on your words:
French artists "filled" the cards with ancient local beliefs of course encoded.
Yes they filled with Régional and World Archetypes. As Italians made.

French artists used the italian decks as a start point and then reworked the cards at all.
Was a start point not a point of arrive.
Probably. And for me they were much better for my own taste.

-Then frenchmen gave names and numbers to the cards.
May be... We have not ALL Tarot decks made up in Italie (or France: Same problem). Let me finish to accumulate decks for a realistic answer.

Names of the cards have a purpose so one must respect them.Is not the wheel it s as is named in french.
Yes naming is creating. I am found of Numerology and so a name is a numeric code also.
But not only: Words are sounds, musical notes, vibrations, colors and so on.

If not one can now understand why people as Waite or Papus redrawn the cards instead of try to decode the original iconography.
They redrawned cards because: They had an ambition, they had a financial interrest, they had their own belief, they were menbers of Groups, Philosophic Societys, Sects ? (cross option you like. Many answers are possibles )
Most of the time it is an Ego problem. But I respect all Creation action of course.

I can t deny the right to understand the cards as you want,but do a new deck create a new one,don t "touch" the TdM iconography please...
I will never create a new deck. But I participate to "inspiration" of a creator that will soon issued a new TdM.
By doing this a creator must be:
Inspired, calm, well informed about historical decks (as full as possible), not money oriented, practical, stubborn enough because it is a long way.
A strong Ego is needed but balanced by humility of artist.

TdM iconography was destructed in many ways by Cards makers (old ones and actual ones) by omitting major details, changing them, ignoring their real signification, or worst adding their own details in a commercial orientation. I.e as to exist on the market and appears differents from their "competitors". Capitalism is a monster never forget this.

In short I would say:
We are all part of a Big Puzzle
Tarot deck is a Puzzle
And last but no least... Tarot deck is Puzzle of the Big Puzzle.

So, yes Tchalai was right: Puzzle is in the Puzzle...

Best

Yves

Yves Le Marseillais wrote:

Hello all, and Eugim

First of all I am happy to have been informed by Miguel about this Forum: Now I have about 5 Forums to checks and visit every day: Ouch !!

& I know the feeling. I've seen you around at some of the other places, too, always enjoyed reading you.

Quote :

My personal feeling is that this archetypal figure is not directly connected to Christian Religion but to our long long World History and I bear in mind that Christianism "used" ancient myths and Gods representations (as Churchs were build up on ancient Paganist Temples/places) to implement his Codes and laws/rituals.

My impression is that wings and his "throne" are more important signs of this card.
Wings means Gods, Space, Mental, elevation.
Throne means base, melting pot (on an alchemical point of view, if we consider that it is not only a throne...), superiority, higher conscience.

I think you are correct here. While normally I don't like to see people injecting all kinds of pagan inflections where there were none intended, (Robin Wood, anyone? ) I've been looking at this card as a kind of initiatory Baphomet figure. Those who can't get past him, can't break out of their habitual modes of thought (XVI) and move on to the more celestial levels represented by XVII-XXI.

Quote :

I will never create a new deck. But I participate to "inspiration" of a creator that will soon issued a new TdM.
By doing this a creator must be:
Inspired, calm, well informed about historical decks (as full as possible), not money oriented, practical, stubborn enough because it is a long way.
A strong Ego is needed but balanced by humility of artist.

TdM iconography was destructed in many ways by Cards makers (old ones and actual ones) by omitting major details, changing them, ignoring their real signification, or worst adding their own details in a commercial orientation. I.e as to exist on the market and appears differents from their "competitors". Capitalism is a monster never forget this.

Well said. Capitalism is like a cancer that eats art and culture, IMHO.

Quote :

We are all part of a Big Puzzle
Tarot deck is a Puzzle
And last but no least... Tarot deck is Puzzle of the Big Puzzle.

So, yes Tchalai was right: Puzzle is in the Puzzle...

That's beautiful.

I saw your mail Yves and many thanks.I will answer it adding some things...

1-Yes Yves,you are right one more time as usual...

"We are all part of a Big Puzzle"
-As the russian dolls the mamushkas or matrioshkas,as the hologram thesis of David Bohm about the universe where each particle of it has the information of the whole.
BTW see how closest is to hermeticism postulate about macrocosmos and microcosmos...
The whole quantum point of view is driving to ancient beleifs (As is above is below )
If only David Bohm read the Corpus Hermeticum ... (May be he did it ? )
As Fritjof Capra earlier did in his book " The Tao of Physics".

2-Tarot de Marseille has an encoded language which is too deep inside it and that is why who give up with two or three conclusions fast drive to fantasies that fills the cards with things or beliefs that nothing have reason with the truest iconography of TdM.
I want to be strongly clear or once at all...
a-TdM has any link with: Qabbalah,UFO,Maya Zero number,ziggurats,zoroastro,Moses,fairy,Jesus,Maitreya,Sauvignon Blanc,Malbec,Cabernet Sauvigon,my mother in law,babylon,Aztecs,Osho,a good done french onion soup,Dante Alighieri,my neighbor of the fifth floor (too hard and harsh bored btw),eneagram, et cetera...
* But said all this you can find that with TdM you can "go to" those avenues of thoughts I mentioned because is a "machine" as the hologram of David Bohm.
For example a topic very discussed on the web...
Qabbalah.
Qabbalah was known in Europe thanks to the work of Pico della Mirandola at least 40 years that italians decks were done. (Correct me here Yves please if I m wrong)
Qabbalah or Kabbalah if you want is and was a Neoplatonic invention born at the times of Alexandria School (I to III century)
Was an approach to mix deepest hebrew beliefs with neoplatonism.
I m not saying alone that Gershom Scholem the best hebrew authority in this field went far than I and said that Kabbalah was a clumsy and disrepectful attempt of the christian thinkers of the Renaissance that tried to show jews more " acceptable" through a christian version of the Kabbalah.
He went farthest and said that all this was an attempt to convert jews to the christian belief...
And I am absolutely agree here with him.
Come on,go to your next synagogue and ask to a traditional Rabbi what he think about it...
Not of course ask this to a "New Age" Rabbi please...
b-TdM has by any doubt an strongest link with France as it is French,and with the ancient french beliefs that Yves told to us mixed of course in its deepest innermost side with the mother of all arts known : ALCHEMY
INNER ALCHEMY that is for me what TdM is all about.
A wonderful awesome trip for people with courage to face the life each day with or without help around...
-France my dearest France the best son of Italy of ours western art as we know and in another fields of course,is the center place of all the historical biggest episodes of Europe.
Only a frenchman as Yves could "feel" this.
How can one deny Celtic influence in France ?
How can one deny the Templar influence in France ?
Who can deny the encoded messages of the cathedrals of France as my another french friend ROM prove in his wonderful site ?
-You Yves talked about numerology...
Well tell me why as I know you are noticed,the number eight was to sacred to the Templars,and why the baptismal font as we see at the Ace of cups of the Visconti deck is eight drawn ?
Why that number is too important to the Sufi belief and we know that the French Templars had knew them very well...
-See the Templar cross with its eight ends...
And so on my french friend...

*One day you owe to us a "class" about the french name of the whole sequence of the 22 ...
You promise here ?
-Don t be too Gemini and "catch the glove" mon ami...
-Why "LA MAISON DIEV " ? / For one example...
Or LE MAT ... / Or is LE MÀT ?

-I cant simply go ahead here for respect to my dear France...
Try to explain which had in mind the artist (so that they were for me ) to balance an equal part of a card game and an encoded message is far from the farthest for me here...
-I am form my mother blood side Irish ascendant so I studied too much in my whole life about Celts and as a result,I am strongly convinced that France as it was the very "center" of this culture must has on her deepest innermost Soul the "signs" of it...
Please I am not talking here about Asterix,a clumsy depiction of Celtic Spirit...
If one do a contrast between Celtic culture and Viking one for example,one thing "jumps" faster...
A vessel done by a Celt aside its obviously purpose,has a strongest image message.
A vessel done by a Viking also but less...
Both cultures known each other at the border line of that time : The Rhin,Germany. And there both exchanged elements of theirs cultures.
Celts were first in time a bronze culture and Vikings after the fall of the Roman Empire simply did "steal" the inventions of the Celts as theirs best son England did after as we know...

-Tarot de Marseille has its own historical "support" and don t need foreign "assistance" from outside please...
If you want to study Kabbalah well go ahead...
If you want to study Maya culture well go ahead...
-But please if you want to study Tarot de Marseille,please leave aside your pre-conceptions and just only "WATCH" the cards...
I think after all,that they have something to tell to us...
Don t you think ?
-Barely more than 350 years after they are talking to us since that time...
We are the deaf the cards were never been dumb...

Hello Stella and I can see you are "on the road" again...
Nice to see you again !

1-Well,you hit the bulls eye my dear friend ...

" I've been looking at this card as a kind of initiatory Baphomet figure "

2-Yes he is Baphomet.
3-He is the Ghost at the Threshold as many subtle beliefs told to us since Alexandria times ( I to III century after Christ)
So you are "awesome" right here...
Nobody can reach the another card-stage if one first don t "clean" or at least "weigh" the weight of ours link to earth so to the matter.
Of course that does not suppose a work to do "ready and fast".
-On ours day by day life we know well too much were ours "weight" is to much to support !
But if one can try ( And I know is not easy please !!!! ) to "burn" some part of that weigh aside that sometimes is too very painful,surely the result of this is to "go ahead" and not never see behind...
-One did the work,out aside things or persons that "intoxicated" us so why see behind ?
* Remember that those things or persons are "alive" without US ...

4- Yes he is the Baphomet,the reason why the French Templar Order were "burned" with the "Holy blessing " help of the Pope and the King of France...
5-Please here and at least I passed by the age when we ate "glass" as is said in my country...
So we studied and learned history too much to know that is " another " never told "version" not told on the books that we knew on ours school days please...
We know that for example the "Berlin Wall" was not a supposed "Freedom Parade" of the western world but best an attempt of England to "stop" the declination of theirs pound with regards to the german money...
-Who came to "help" her "Majesty" ? // E.E.U.U.

5-Returning to TdM field I am with you Stella here...
I can not reach the next card if I not prior "burn" some things my baby...

* If it not...

-What do you suppose happen if I meet the fire of XVI ???
*I will fired,burnt at all my friend...

eugim/migue/miguel/michael/michel

* Till the next soon...

-Here I repeat this once more...

The measure of ours matter weight which tied us to the earth,is the time which ours Souls must be tied here in terms of time of course for ours understand,so not for her...

* That is the lesson of LE DIABLE card or me.

-Many,many years ago ( I am 47 years old ) I saw a chapter of Kung Fu original series (seventies ) where the young disciple felt that he felt alone.
So the blind Master told him that he may be is best to him to begin to "hear" the " around" from himself.
* That does not suppose contrary of course with regard with my prior example anything easy or " fast" to solve,but suppose another attitude.
-For example....
My friend Yves only know that I am "crossing" a personal divorce crisis.
Okay...
I have two only ways.
a- Use the cards as mirrors (So they will tell me what I want hear)/ The worst way for me at least...
b-Live free the cards if they want to tell me something...
*So I only "live " my oneself aside ....
I know is not easy !
-And then see how the cards "FALLS" ...

-I choose the final option,so simply see how the cards "Fall" or " Comes" if you want...

eugim wrote:

-Many,many years ago ( I am 47 years old ) I saw a chapter of Kung Fu original series (seventies ) where the young disciple felt that he felt alone.
So the blind Master told him that he may be is best to him to begin to "hear" the " around" from himself.

I remember that!
Grasshopper!

Quote :

* That does not suppose contrary of course with regard with my prior example anything easy or " fast" to solve,but suppose another attitude.
-For example....
My friend Yves only know that I am "crossing" a personal divorce crisis.
Okay...
I have two only ways.
a- Use the cards as mirrors (So they will tell me what I want hear)/ The worst way for me at least...
b-Live free the cards if they want to tell me something...
*So I only "live " my oneself aside ....
I know is not easy !
-And then see how the cards "FALLS" ...

-I choose the final option,so simply see how the cards "Fall" or " Comes" if you want...

I got this from Campbell & Moyers years ago:

From the Rig Veda:
On the Tree of Life there are two birds, fast friends. One bird eats the fruit of the tree;
the other bird, not eating, watches.

Or, expressed even more succinctly: Two birds, fast friends; one eats, one watches.

Two different orientations, two planes of consciousness. The one bird, eating the fruit, participates in the field of
action. He’s killing a fruit – life feeds on life.

The second bird in our Tree represents the metaphysical observer within us, who, detached from the action, simply watches without
judgment, and from this perspective is able to see a reality that embraces and transcends
the “sorrows of the world.”

-Very,very deepest Stella...

To be tireless observer of ourselves as from the side point of view of another person watching to us.
It not easy all time btw baby...

-Ours matter "eats" ours best not finished work,never the beginning.

-I ve been thinking of this all that time till now my friend ...

Stella said:

The second bird in our Tree represents the metaphysical observer within us, who, detached from the action, simply watches without
judgment, and from this perspective is able to see a reality that embraces and transcends
the “sorrows of the world.”

Many thanks again...